as i said i didnt get time to read through everything and answer earlier. and i assumeed in the reponse 29 when i stated i had advised one dog was put to sleep that i had not explained fully. i have just looked back at it. and i didnt say it had a brain tumour. it might of had behavioural problems but these were becasue of the mental problems it had, which were as i said later discovered the dog had a brain tumour., this dog could not have been helped. and if the metod that people condone in this forum were used someone would have probably had their face bitten. or even killed. there are some dogs that cant be helped. As some people with severe problems cant be helped.

i do think cesar has oped peoples eyes to the fact there are dog trainers and behaviourists out there that can help. so yes that is positive.

i take objection to the fact that some trainers put loads of dog into classes to make money and dont care about thier behavoural problmes. If a dog has behavioral problmes i would not put them in a calss but see them one to one. and yes i do put dogs into classes that suit the dog. and yes i make a living from it. and if you believe that cesar milan does it all for free then i am very suprisesd at that. It is my job/vocation like it is cesars. of course i make money from it.

right i’m off to write a report for the vet for the dog i have just seen.

sorry for all spelling mistakes. i didnt get time to correct everything.

thnaks

donna

i’m orry if you feel i ahve not commented on everything tht people have said a i just simply dont have time. so i’m orry for that.

i have advised that a dog was destroyed. it had severe problems that were later found out that the dog had a brain tumour. o i really dont feel that i was in the wrong at all. Not all dogs can be saved unfortuantely. But yes most i deal with do make a huge improvement.

i dont use punishemnt at all to train. i sue rewar based mehtids and who is to say that i cant get dogs to do something if i dont have a treat. they actually work on a variable schedule. so if you would like to go and look up skinner than you will understand why dogs will do things.

I use harnesses. i dont use them or condone people picking there dogs up by them. they are a training tool. they help with training. and also some dogs that have had problems with collrs becasue of various reasons. they dont make dogs pullers if you use the right type and in the right way on the right dog.

through thousand of years of selective breeding we have devoloped breeds such as border collies. If you dont work them they nee something to do i.e agility. all dogs have prey drive and some parts are stronger than others in certain dogs or breeds. I also have a ridgeback. i dotn have lions to hunt so will use up the natural insticnt in another way.

alos there is a phenominon called learned helplessness as jill mentoned earlier. if you would like to go and find out about it thatn maybe you would see harm in what cesar is doing. cesar is not new. it is about 30, 40 years old. it is outdated.

jean donadlson, ian dunbar are both brilliant trainers go and look at their info.

sorry ahve to go rush and help a dog.

donna xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I feel I have to comment because, I like Cesars ethics, i’m not sure about the whole jerking thing it all depends on how much force is used, but then again I don’t believe responsible dog owners would hurt their own dog. I’m a vegetarian and i have a cat, I just became a volunteer to walk dogs for an animal charity, and I sure as hell know i’d never hurt a critter no matter how small, and thank-you i’ll leave it to the professionals to teach me how to do it and thats what Cesar advises.
I have been reading some of the comments here and i would just like to say, Donna, you seem to be deliberately ignoring the fact that as several people have pointed out, Cesar did not condone the use of prong collars, he pointedly stated it was the owners choice, you were told this by Pam in 24 and Geoff in 25, you totally ignored chris in 26 as if he wasnt there! in 27 stated you thought the use of prong collars was wrong (i must say i agree) but did not respond to the point that this was not Cesars way, which is something you should have acknowledged to take part in a reasonable, unbiased argument and you should have acknowledged what Chris was saying whether you agreed with it or not.
Then you totally horrified me in 29 when you admitted you had ‘advised’ someone to have an agressive dog destroyed. I can’t put into words how much that knocked me sick to the stomach, and if they had a child with an agressive behavioural disorder, what in Jesus name would you advise then? I’m sorry but I don’t think anyone who advises an animal be destroyed has any business anywhere stating Cesar Millan’s methods are cruel, i mean lets look at the two hands here, ‘training a dog the way its mother would’, vs ‘have the dog exectued’. You are not the only dog trainer on here, Laura has 20 years experience, and she uses some of Cesars methods, I would assume that not all of one trainers methods are correct for all dogs, but no one can argue, Cesar has ‘a way’ with dogs which thankfully has prevented many dogs being ‘PUT TO DEATH, EXECUTED, SLAUGHTERED’ and no matter what way you say it, it boils down to the same thing. How in the name of sweet Jesus saving a dogs life is wrong is beyond me!
Jill in 46, never once have i heard Cesar mention wolves, only dogs in the wild, you mention Canid, I thought a wolf was a member of the canidae family, are they so dissimilar? This is a genuine question, I don’t claim to know squat about these matters.
Cesars programme states, ‘do not try these methods without consulting a dog training professional’, and I say ‘be very careful what professional you consult!’.
Everybody knows their own dog, and every body knows the point where a correction becomes a punishment or becomes cruel, and no responsible owner should ever cross that line, and NO ONE should advise anyone to have a dog destroyed unless that someone is a vet who is doing it because the dog is in pain and nothing more can be done for it.
If you don’t agree with all of Cesars methods, for goodness sakes come up with a relevent ‘unbiased’ argument as to which ones and why, because nobody can say that all of Cesars methods are cruel and outdated, and the results speak for themselves, I know that these people on this programme love their dogs and if Cesar had been in anyway cruel, they would be the first ones hollering about it, and you know what, i just cant hear them, all I hear is, how happy their dogs are after a visit with Cesar, and they know their dogs a darned sight better than you do honey.
I tell you the one programme i had trouble stomaching, the one where the rotweiller herded sheep, and it bit the poor critter and brought it down terrified and it must have hurt and that in MY opinion was just plain wrong, so I am not ranting on a one sided biased argument for Cesar here, just so we have that clear, theres pros and cons.
I would also like to say that i find getting dogs to do agility is cruel and outdated, a bit like getting bears to dance, IMO. I mean performing dogs, performing bears, its all for human amusement, I don’t see Cesar making his dogs do tricks, but hey thats My opinion and im entitled to it, I would like to hear why getting a dog to do tricks is all good for the dog and has nothing what so ever to do with performing for humans, and how this is what a dog would do in the natural world, and when i say dog here i mean member of the canine family which ‘to me’ are those in there with dingo’s, jackals, wolves, foxes and the like, cos i sure as dixie dont see no wild dogs running up and down see saws and ramps and jumping through hoops.
Hey just be kind to animals and each other, and see here that what Cesar’s ethics are doing here is a good thing, even if you don’t agree with all of his methods.

For the Anti Cesar crew.

I have watched The Dog Whisperer several times, I own a copy of Paul Owens Dog Whisperer Book, I have been a dog owner for years, I am by no means an expert nor a fanatic, I just love my dog. I also love my kids and watch Supper Nanny and have read a few articles/books about how to bring them up to be happy, loving, respectful etc etc. I like most, ‘cherry pick’ the ideas and solutions to problems and add a few of my own along the way, to come up with what suits me and mine. Seems to be working fine, well behaved dog and no asbos.

I am sure your methods are generally great, but I might not like some of them - just like some of Cesars suit - but not all.

Cesar obviously gets results, he may have touched a dog with his foot and you may not do it - did he hurt the dog by the way, didn’t see that one? Or did he just show it who was boss? How do you achieve that? Please share - we may wish to adopt your approach….

I fully appreciate that some of his methods may not fit in with your way of training; I remember a teacher at school who just could not get me to understand quadratic equasions, no matter how hard he tried - it took a different one 10 mins and I had it! My point being; be reasonable about this - ok you may find a foot and a ‘owners’ collar unpalatable - but you got to admit it - there are some good bits in his methods. You may choose a different tac, but is everything he does bad?

I am always interested by people with a passion for dismissing the work of other people fighting the same cause……you see I work sorting out human brains…surely at the end of the day you and Cesar are on the same side here? All very interesting….

Just out of interest - can you let me know the name of your books, dvds, web sites etc - maybe I could cherry pick from those - I am assuming with so much experience and sucess stories you are published….

PS Heather, I will cherry pick from you - you sound to be rational, reasonable and able to see the good and the bad.

At least with a ban people can feel a little safer when walking there small dogs. People always say that Staffs always want to fight other dogs, well thats not very fair for people who are walking a yorkshire terrier or and old dog or any other dog that has no hope of getting away and therefore is killed. Also, it will end the suffering of the Staff from being treated badly.

ENFORCE THE BAN

Now, I do think that Cesar does have some positive things to teach people:

- It’s very important to use ‘the voice’ of authority with your dog.
- Being the alpha/pack leader is key. Inspire confidence/security.
- Be consistent. Use the same language for your commands each time.
- Follow-through on your commands. If you call him, make sure he comes to you.
- Exercise is crucial to your dog’s mental and physical well-being.

Some of the things that disturbed me about Cesar’s programs:

- JERKING YOUR DOGS NECK CREATES LONG-TERM HEALTH PROBLEMS!
I can’t believe that this guy is so damn socially irresponsible as to advocate this, knowing full well that people believe most anything they see on tv without question!
He repeatedly instructs people to jerk harshly on the leads. Ok folks, tie a lead around your child’s neck. When you dislocate his vertebrae, cause permanent nerve damage, and give your child blinding headaches he will scream and holler. Your dog won’t bark or whine because he knows your response will be another terrifying escalation of stressful stimuli thanks to Cesar’s training. But when your dog dies, perhaps you won’t look at his autopsy results, but a vet student might… and they’ll know exactly how you trained him… by violently jerking on his neck! You are injuring your dog! If you need to restrain him, buy a body harness and hook your lead through the loop on the top his back. Better yet, train him effectively through positive reinforcement!

Most dogs respond very well to praise. If not, hire a trainer, read lots of books, by a wide range of trainers, not just one! Don’t listen to me, educate yourselves!

I do not believe that Cesar is ill-intentioned - maybe just ill-advised.

PLEASE reconsider your strategies and monitor you dog for signs of stress. A STRESSED OUT ANIMAL IS NEVER DESIRABLE, even if he’s not displaying what you might consider negative behavior. If he’s panting, he’s likely stressed.

If you want a silent dog with a fractured personality, keep watching Cesar. If not, perhaps you should consult others.

Don’t use a choke/prong collar -EVER! Don’t jerk the collarLook at the studies done on dogs who have worn these things their whole lives and let the statistics do the talking.

‘Flooding’ as Jill so apt described may get your dog to behave the way you want him to, but ultimately you’re really screwing your dog’s head on backwards. How can you possibly think that traumatize your dog this way, even if it gets him to comply with your wishes? When your dog is basically saying, “I’ll do whatever you want just stop hurting/terrifying me,” - do you really think you’ve succeeded in training him to be a happy, well-trained dog? You’ve broken him, but you certainly haven’t trained him. Is that the kind of personality you’re looking for in a dog?

Well, that’s all I have time for - I hope some of this sinks in for your dog’s sake.
I really don’t want your $ or approval. I want the puppers to be ok.